Re: Atheists or Militant atheists
Historical Christians? It would be better if you said historical religious people wouldn't it? I understand that they may have claimed to be Christians, but clearly they did not exibit the characteristics that would point to them being a Bible Christian.
** I copied and pasted the question. Many proclaim to be Christians and who are we to say they aren't. I believe that is between God and that person. Christians are not perfect, I know I am certainly not. We do not know that person's heart or their relationship with God. Christians sin and fall everyday, the best we can do is repent and try to do the right thing again.
Murdering someone for thier unbelief or refusing to convert is never okay and God does not think so either. Can you swear to it that God motivated them to do that?
**Umm.. No, I can not swear that God makes anyone do anything. I think that is a dangerous road to go down.
Do you think it is discriminating just because we do not condone a homosexual lifestyle?
** I don't condone a homosexual lifestyle as a personal choice for me and while I may not agree with what a homosexual person may or may not be doing it is their life. Not mine. I have to answer for what I do just as well as everyone else has to answer for what they do.
I am sure that if you have read plenty of the posts on this forum that you would see that I am a Christian..
"I am not what I ought to be. I am not what I wish to be. I am not even what I hope to be. But by the cross of Christ, I am not what I was." ? John Newton.
Re: Atheists or Militant atheists
Those people murdered in the name of the God you worship, therefore they were Christians, they lived from the same set of rules as you, the Bible.
whats the ideological difference? there is none. catholocism has been around for thousands of years, and to my knowledge the book of worship they used has never been changed.
Dinosaurs were lacking from mention in the book you speak of, that is why I brought them up.
My point was science has proven them to have existed millions of years ago, therefore giving more evidence to the history of the world.
That's why I said science is based on facts.
You simply cannot refute that Christian ideology is the basis for restrictions on homosexuality in this country. Quit avoding it and admit it, or I will not contiune to debate this with you. All of what you say is jusy refusing to state the truth and accept that it is true, and it is wrong to have a religion that not all americans believe in dictate laws and statues that affect those who are not religious.
If marriage is a religious basis, then take away all priveledges and benefits from men and women who get married. that would be a solution to the dilemma, no?
Re: Atheists or Militant atheists
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Biggin
Those people murdered in the name of the God you worship, therefore they were Christians, they lived from the same set of rules as you, the Bible.
whats the ideological difference? there is none. catholocism has been around for thousands of years, and to my knowledge the book of worship they used has never been changed.
Dinosaurs were lacking from mention in the book you speak of, that is why I brought them up.
My point was science has proven them to have existed millions of years ago, therefore giving more evidence to the history of the world.
That's why I said science is based on facts.
You simply cannot refute that Christian ideology is the basis for restrictions on homosexuality in this country. Quit avoding it and admit it, or I will not contiune to debate this with you. All of what you say is jusy refusing to state the truth and accept that it is true, and it is wrong to have a religion that not all americans believe in dictate laws and statues that affect those who are not religious.
If marriage is a religious basis, then take away all priveledges and benefits from men and women who get married. that would be a solution to the dilemma, no?
I can murder in the name of anyone and still not belong to them or represent them. No, the God I worship and his Bible does not condone that behavior in the slightest. If oy uwill notice the Catholic Bible is a little different than other Bibles.
Evolution is true or is a fact because Dino's existed?? Liek I said as a Christian I am against it, but if the Bible did not exist I would still be against it, think about it, is it normal to see 2 people of the same sex interacting like they do? There is a lot wrong with that lifestyle regardless of what the Bible teaches about it. Most peoples basis and stances that support it are, this is a free country and the constitution supports it , so they can do it. I agree, but the constitution does not support marriage between the same sex. Heck, God even says they can be a homosexual if they want, he gave them that choice to choose.
No taking away privelages from married couples is not the solution, the solution is to stand up and say we will not condone this and not pass it, so continue to live your life as you wish but stop pushing your views on us as a nation on redefining marriage, it is fine just the way it is and has been for many years.
Re: Atheists or Militant atheists
Since the beginning of recorded history, marriage has always been at the forefront of civilization. Before christianity, hinduism, or buddhism, or any of the other forms of religion that exist. Laws have always existed in some form and even in the times of the caveman IMO. This world could not possibly exist without some form of law and yes, even some forms of religion. We, as humans, have the need to be ruled by laws and religion. Some just choose to let their religion be their primary rule of law. Others let the laws of man govern them. To not have both, would mean anarchy, and I think we all can agree, if you think about it seriously, that nothing can exist long at all without laws and religion. Even anarchists have some kind of informal leader among them for some sort of direction.
Re: Atheists or Militant atheists
Just getting off the topic for a minute, but valour, you sound and post a lot like a former poster who was banned from here a long time ago. Be truthful with us since you profess to be a christian, if that former poster is you.
Re: Atheists or Militant atheists
Quote:
Originally Posted by
imported_centennialdawg
Just getting off the topic for a minute, but valour, you sound and post a lot like a former poster who was banned from here a long time ago. Be truthful with us since you profess to be a christian, if that former poster is you.
"SIMILARITY COMPLEX" This is in your signature and it appears that it can be applied to your reasoning. I am not a former poster, I am a current poster.
Re: Atheists or Militant atheists
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Biggin
Those people murdered in the name of the God you worship, therefore they were Christians, they lived from the same set of rules as you, the Bible.
whats the ideological difference? there is none. catholocism has been around for thousands of years, and to my knowledge the book of worship they used has never been changed.
Dinosaurs were lacking from mention in the book you speak of, that is why I brought them up.
My point was science has proven them to have existed millions of years ago, therefore giving more evidence to the history of the world.
That's why I said science is based on facts.
You simply cannot refute that Christian ideology is the basis for restrictions on homosexuality in this country. Quit avoding it and admit it, or I will not contiune to debate this with you. All of what you say is jusy refusing to state the truth and accept that it is true, and it is wrong to have a religion that not all americans believe in dictate laws and statues that affect those who are not religious.
If marriage is a religious basis, then take away all priveledges and benefits from men and women who get married. that would be a solution to the dilemma, no?
Oh boy, where to start with this spew of bigotry, misinformation and hatred?
Let's start with the treatment of homosexuals by Christians.
So do you prefer the way Muslim states like Iran treat homosexuals, that is round them up, imprison them and often execute them?
Or maybe the way atheist states like Pol Pot's Cambodia, or Stalin's Soviet Russia treated them, oh wait, that was exactly the same way, round them up, and execute them.
Well then maybe the way Hitler's Germany treated them during his great experiment with Darwinism and selective breeding? Oh wait........
I think I've already made the case and made it clear that the crusades were at their base a defensive action to Islamic imperialism which had reached all the way to middle France by the time Christians mounted a counter attack. To criticise Christian reaction at that time is to criticise the basic right to self defense.
The Inquisition was indefensible....but in 140 years about 3 to 5 thousand people died at the hands of the political entity that was the RCC at that time. On the other hand Hitler murdered about 7 million in a matter of only a few years during his grand demonstration of Darwinism, this included about 15,000 homosexuals, or 3 to 5 times the total number of victims of the inquisition.
To try to blame the evils committed throughout history on Christianity is to grossly misunderstand history and must, at it's core, be rooted in bigotry. The same bigotry that led Pol Pot, Stalin and Hitler to outlaw Christian activity and act harshly to the violation of this law.
As for dinosaurs in the Bible? First, who cares and why would they be there anyway? Not much said about skunks, spiders, or hummingbirds either.
I know my views are different from most when it comes to the Bible, but really I am not concerned at all with the content of the Torah or the OT in general. All I concern myself with are the teachings of Jesus and the NT. One would not expect to find anything about Dinosaurs in the NT. So this is of absolutely no consequence to me personally.
In a quick defense of this I will say that I have seen some say that the "there were Giants in the earth in those days" being a reference to dinosaurs. Personally I don't believe this to be the case, but then again I don't really care as this is the OT.
Re: Atheists or Militant atheists
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gotch
Oh boy, where to start with this spew of bigotry, misinformation and hatred?
Let's start with the treatment of homosexuals by Christians.
So do you prefer the way Muslim states like Iran treat homosexuals, that is round them up, imprison them and often execute them?
Or maybe the way atheist states like Pol Pot's Cambodia, or Stalin's Soviet Russia treated them, oh wait, that was exactly the same way, round them up, and execute them.
Well then maybe the way Hitler's Germany treated them during his great experiment with Darwinism and selective breeding? Oh wait........
I think I've already made the case and made it clear that the crusades were at their base a defensive action to Islamic imperialism which had reached all the way to middle France by the time Christians mounted a counter attack. To criticise Christian reaction at that time is to criticise the basic right to self defense.
The Inquisition was indefensible....but in 140 years about 3 to 5 thousand people died at the hands of the political entity that was the RCC at that time. On the other hand Hitler murdered about 7 million in a matter of only a few years during his grand demonstration of Darwinism, this included about 15,000 homosexuals, or 3 to 5 times the total number of victims of the inquisition.
To try to blame the evils committed throughout history on Christianity is to grossly misunderstand history and must, at it's core, be rooted in bigotry. The same bigotry that led Pol Pot, Stalin and Hitler to outlaw Christian activity and act harshly to the violation of this law.
As for dinosaurs in the Bible? First, who cares and why would they be there anyway? Not much said about skunks, spiders, or hummingbirds either.
I know my views are different from most when it comes to the Bible, but really I am not concerned at all with the content of the Torah or the OT in general. All I concern myself with are the teachings of Jesus and the NT. One would not expect to find anything about Dinosaurs in the NT. So this is of absolutely no consequence to me personally.
In a quick defense of this I will say that I have seen some say that the "there were Giants in the earth in those days" being a reference to dinosaurs. Personally I don't believe this to be the case, but then again I don't really care as this is the OT.
see, you did the same he did
we arent talking about all other countries, we are talking about AMERICA, the land of the free.
We are debating letting Christian ideology influence politics, and homosexuality legislation in this country is just that, Christian-based.
you spent 20 minutes saying nothing that had anything to do with what we are discussing.
Do you deny that US policy towards homosexuals is based on Christian ideology?
It isnt only the inquisition and the crusades. You are a smart guy Gotch, you know about all the countless times in history people were murdered by the Catholic church purely for being heretic, or trying to teach science instead of religion.
Another point you cannot deny.
and for you not to mention that the Crusades also attacked pagan Slavs, Jews, Russian and Greek Orthodox Christians, Mongols, Cathars, Hussites, Waldensians, Old Prussians, and political enemies of the popes is leaving out crucial facts. All that to 'stop Islamic imperalism'? ha hardly.
The purpose of the Crusades was to regain the Holy Land.
btw, the term Crusades refers to more than simpy the war to gain back the Holy Land. The term also refers to the other 'missions' they were sent on by the Pope outside of Middle Eastern area.
giant creatures, bigger than buildings, that roamed the earth and terrorized early cave-man not being mentioned in a book that supposedly recaps the history of the world leads me to believe that it in fact has no factual basis. that was my point.
Re: Atheists or Militant atheists
Quote:
Originally Posted by
valour
I can murder in the name of anyone and still not belong to them or represent them. No, the God I worship and his Bible does not condone that behavior in the slightest. If oy uwill notice the Catholic Bible is a little different than other Bibles.
Evolution is true or is a fact because Dino's existed?? Liek I said as a Christian I am against it, but if the Bible did not exist I would still be against it, think about it, is it normal to see 2 people of the same sex interacting like they do? There is a lot wrong with that lifestyle regardless of what the Bible teaches about it. Most peoples basis and stances that support it are, this is a free country and the constitution supports it , so they can do it. I agree, but the constitution does not support marriage between the same sex. Heck, God even says they can be a homosexual if they want, he gave them that choice to choose.
No taking away privelages from married couples is not the solution, the solution is to stand up and say we will not condone this and not pass it, so continue to live your life as you wish but stop pushing your views on us as a nation on redefining marriage, it is fine just the way it is and has been for many years.
I am done with you.
You refuse to accept truths, and only try to use rhetoric to dodge points.
You refuse to accept the truth that Christian ideology is the main reason for homosexuality legislation in the US. therefore, you are not worth debating with.
Re: Atheists or Militant atheists
Quote:
Originally Posted by
valour
Hello everyone, I would like to have a friendly discussion. I am a Christian and would like to ask some questions.
1. If God does exist is there anything you would ask him?
2. As an atheist do you believe morals are absolutes or are they subjective? Why?
3. Does your outlook on Christianity come from what you observe Christians doing?
4. What do you dislike most about religion?
For the record, I'm agnostic, borderline atheist.
1) Where you been?
2) World is full of good people and not-so-good people, has little to do with ones religion, it doesn't make you any better of a person.
3) Somewhat. They certainly don't sway my opinion in favor of Christianity, I actually think more are driven away than converted the other.
4) There's a few things. The first is the inability of free-will, makes people to fearful to think of anything outside of what their religion tells them to. People don't like hearing that, but it's true. Second, I think it's done more harm to the world than good. And lastly, the better-than attitude held by a lot(not all) that they are right, all other Gods are wrong, and non-believers are some vile bunch.
Just some of the main ones, not all by any means.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
valour
What small clues from evolution are you talking about? We have no tranitional fossils, besides fossils in the science community cannot be used as evidence to evolution. The Big Bang is only a theory that attempts to explain away creation, that is clearly seen to be the motive, especially after studying the history of Darwinism.
People need to understand that evolution is not out to debunk creationism, it's out to put some understanding to where we came from, the fact that it goes against creationism isn't it's fault.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
valour
Homosexuality is not normal human behavior and Science supports this. It is considerd abnormal behavior. Do you realize that a very small percentage of people in this world interact in this lifestyle? I am not using this as evidence, but the majority of the population rejects this lifestyle for a reason. Are you saying it is natural for a person of the same sex to desire each other? Rememeber Science has went on record as saying homosexuals are not born gay, therfore it has to be a learned trait.
Actually science doesn't support it, it's a natural thing, go look it up. It happens in nature all the time, with many different species. Of course it only happens in a small portion, that makes perfect sense. The reason most reject it, is religion, most of the world is religious in some way. It is natural, already said that. Where is the record you are referring to? They are born gay, just like I and you were born straight.
Let me ask, did you choose to be straight? Nope, you just were attracted to the opposite sex, same way with them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
valour
As a whole we are not saying they cannot be homosexual, we are saying they are not bringing into marriage, a marriage that from history shows it is between a man and a woman. I know atheists that are against this lifestyle so the theory that only religious people think this way cannot be true.
History is full of injustices, blacks didn't use to be able to marry whites, that's a part of history...does it make it okay?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
valour
Do you think porn is a good influence on anyone, especially children? Do you feel like it demoralizes women?:)
I don't know how it influences them in a bad way, most seen and know what sex is at an early age, most turn out fine...have yet to see how it effects them so negatively. It's their body and choice, they aren't being forced to and they make good money, more power to them.
And I'm not quoting the other post, but marriage was redefined before i.e. with blacks, I see that as a good thing. YOU and the others are the ones pushing beliefs, I hate all this talk about the "sanctity of marriage"...go look up the divorce rate, look at the adultery, straights through out any "sanctity of marriage" a long time ago.
